Comments on Magen Tzedek: Reconsidering AgriProcessors Products

At some point, though, the mountain of testimony i...

2008-06-05T15:09:00.000-05:00

At some point, though, the mountain of testimony is accepted. The Chafeitz Chaim allows believing rumor to the extent of protecting oneself "just in case". The same is true of preventing the suffering of third parties, of preventing a desecration of Hashem's reputation (chilul Hashem), etc... You don't let people needlessly risk limbs because "I'm not meqabeil zein" (I do not accept [this accusation]).

Ideally, there would be active supervision by responsible parties, and we wouldn't need to engage in rumor collecting.

-micha

The Torah says that one cannot judge based on hear...

2008-06-05T14:03:00.000-05:00

The Torah says that one cannot judge based on hearsay.

BS"D In addition to the brands listed in this ...

2008-06-05T01:06:00.000-05:00

BS"D

In addition to the brands listed in this post, ShopRite and Nathan's hot dogs are re-branded from AgriProcessors, as are any brands of non-glatt meat certified by United Mehadrin Kosher.

It looks to me like the more effective advocacy effort at this point is the one from Uri L'Tzedek (http://uriltzedek.webnode.com), which is calling for a boycott, effective June 15, not only of Rubashkin meats at the retail level, but also of restaurants and other establishments that use Rubashkin product. JTA reports that Rabbis Avi Weiss and Shlomo Riskin, as well as Ruth Messenger, have signed on, and that the threat of an actual boycott is getting Rubashkin to negotiate the relevant issues.

The failure of Conservative rabbis to support stronger action out of (misguided, in my opinion) fear that some marginally observant congregants would choose the more ethically produced but treif meat sold at Whole Foods over the ritually kosher but unethically produced meat from AgriProcessors left a void that others have filled. For the Modern Orthodox organizers behind the boycott (rabbinical students at Yeshivat Chovevei Torah), eating treif meat is simply not an option; it's either kosher meat or kosher vegetarianism. If the "kosher" meat is morally tainted, then one must make do without.

Without a strong sense of obligation, of mitzvah, that we are commanded by the Torah to refrain from supporting abuse of workers or animals by our purchases in the marketplace (ein machazikin b'ydei ovei aveirah), it will be very difficult to effect real change.

Considering that a small fraction of Conservative ...

2008-05-30T13:20:00.000-05:00

Considering that a small fraction of Conservative Jews even keep kosher, this is a farce anyway.

No it's not. Yes, it may be true that most who affiliate with Conservative synagogues don't keep kosher according to orthodox rules, but from my experience there's a pretty high percentage of them who only purchase kosher meat. And their total population is higher than the total population of Orthodox who keep kosher. Thus, a very large percentage, perhaps most, of Agriprocessor's customers are probably Conservative.

Yosef,The presumption of innocence (dan lekaf zech...

2008-05-27T13:55:00.000-05:00

Yosef,

The presumption of innocence (dan lekaf zechus) can't be maintaned after the facts were checked out and confirmed.

The problem isn't whether Conservative Jews are "frum bashing". It's why we Orthodox Jews, who invest so much in following halakhah, are unable to address the issue of workplace ethics in our own community. At least the CLJS is looking to do something for those of their consitutency who observe kashrus to observe Yashrus as well.

You'll notice, if you reread his writings, the organization's founder always write about his pain about the lack in the Jewish community, and never uses us-vs.-them phraseology.

Who is wise? One who learns from anyone.

It is more constructive to stop looking at who is "bashing" us, and start working on the things we give them things to bash.

Hechsher Tzedek is a great initiative, aimed at observance of a neglected realm of halakhah. We should learn to emulate it to the extent that Orthodox and Conservative legal sensibilities differ in matters of Choshein Mishpat (fiscal, tort and workplace law) and therefore implement different standards. Rather than get on the defensive over imagined slights, do something constructive!

-R' Micha Berger

Hi Rich,This post was a direct copy and paste from...

2008-05-25T16:27:00.000-05:00

Hi Rich,
This post was a direct copy and paste from JTA's Breaking News for that day, not something I wrote myself. The link, however, now points to the latest breaking news where nothing is said about Joffe.

Perhaps JTA would be willing to reveal the source for this comment. I'll see what I can find out.

Yael,What is the source for the Yoffie statement?R...

2008-05-25T13:24:00.000-05:00

Yael,

What is the source for the Yoffie statement?

Rich

Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence?...

2008-05-23T15:24:00.000-05:00

Whatever happened to the presumption of innocence? The OU's approach is proper: they will withdraw hashgacha if found guilty. This shows one of the flaws of the "hekhsher tzedek" concept: it confuses halacha with political correctness. Considering that a small fraction of Conservative Jews even keep kosher, this is a farce anyway. We all know that the only reason the Conservative rabbinate is so hot about this is because the owners are orthodox, and frum bashing has replaced mitzvot in the Conservative movement. - Yosef G.